The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. On Thursday, M.D. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. PDs are dropping them from contracts. That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety. Kyle . That could happen easily. https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. It has nothing to do with Glock. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. The SIG will be the shortest military contract for guns in history. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. He points to it in the video. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! But it also has much worse quality control on the parts in my experience owning and working on both. As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. About $300. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. But now, P320 is the subject. Dude, your story is THREE years old. The Hide Armory. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! A shame but then no one was hurt. Canadas highly-trained counterterrorism force, JTF-2, is the only military unit with the SIG P320 in its inventory right now. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. Time will tell if no. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. . Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. . Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. Because its flat out bull**it. The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. I didnt even touch it! As they should. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. Trust a P365 with your life. Grow up, you aint all that! Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. The problem was strikers. Dont care for them, not my jam. The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. (It wasnt my gun). The new guy sucks. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. Would you? There was no holster involved. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. You have entered an incorrect email address! You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. And have the dropping 320 go off? Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! JTF-2 is the only unit in. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. My gun just went off! Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. He probably had a double until it was over. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. Thats the same. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. Its a novelty, its got issues! At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. Anyway around here they do. On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. These officers are not gunfighters. is the manual safety a kit you add? 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. 2. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. LOL! For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? There was nothing wrong with the Glock action, it was a training issue. That took a lot. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. Funny how that works. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. Plastic crap! . Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. The Glock fails on both counts. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. Nope. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. But this time, the sound bites used were different. Canadian soldier. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. Weird how that might happen. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. Liberal, Conservative. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. It did not originally have this. No, it doesnt. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. 00:03. BAM. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms.
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